Online Seminar:  Making the Business Connection

Presenter:  John Luna, Director of Career Design & Development Services
(Vocational Department of Dallas Metrocare Email: 
jluna@dallasmetrocare.com

Slide #1

What services or resources does a community rehabilitation program have
to offer employers?

* We offer reliable and dependable employees. * We work through the
employees' interests, their skills, their abilities, and what they
really want to do and match them to the respective job. * We try to find
out the employees' strong points of what they wish to do in their work
life.

Interviewer:  Today we are very fortunate to have with us John Luna. 
John, thank you for joining us today.

John Luna:  You are welcome.

Interviewer:  Could you tell us a little something about yourself, John,
as well as your organization? I know that our listeners would be very
interested.

John Luna:  Sure, I would be glad to. First of all, I have been with
Dallas Mental Care, formerly Dallas Mental Health and Retardation
Services, as director of Career Design and development services, which
is the vocational component of Dallas Mental Care Services for 32 years.
I really enjoy what I do. It involves dealing with all of our consumers,
their family members, the local political system, and the state
political system. And, we work a lot with the businesses through the
Chamber of Commerce.

Interviewer:  I know that you have a lot of valuable things to tell us
today. So we are going to jump right in, and I am going to start with
our first question. What services or resources does a community
rehabilitation program have to offer employers?

John Luna:  What we have to offer would be reliable, dependable
employees through a pool that has been screened. The employer does not
have to think, "If I hire somebody, what do I really know about them?" 
What we do is screen for the employer. We know them about as well as
anyone. We have worked through their interests, their skills, their
abilities, what they really want to do, and match them to the respective
job. When we come to an employer, we have screened out someone who does
not know what they want to do. But get them in a job that they wish to
do, which meets the employer's needs.

Interviewer:  When you say, "screened out", just so that we will not
leave any misconceptions in the minds of the people listening, you do
not mean screened out from the possibility of having a job do you?

John Luna:  No, I do not. It is that we go through assessments and
personal interests of just exactly what they want to do. In other words,
what we are trying to do is find out their strong points of what they
wish to do in their work life.

Interviewer:  Basically you are saying, perhaps, not a good match for
this particular job. But then you are going to continue your assessments
to find a job that would perhaps best match to that person?

John Luna:  That is correct. Yes.

Interviewer:  Sometimes when people hear "screened out" it means
different things to different people. They might think that you meant,
"The person was not appropriate for community employment".

John Luna:  No. That is not what I meant at all.

Slide #2

How do you market your services to employers once you have a good handle
on what the individual wants to do?

* Everything is based on relationships with the employers. * We ask the
employers if they are satisfied with our services and to recommend us to
other employers. * It is a matter of trust. Employers know that we will
come to them with a good, reliable, and dependable employee.


Interviewer:  I am wondering how you go about marketing your services to
employers once you have a good handle on what the individual wants to
do?

John Luna:  Everything is based on relationships with the employers. If
we have a past history with employers, we ask if they are satisfied with
our services and to recommend us to other employers. We have been doing
this since about 1971. We have a pretty good following of good
employers. The main thing is based on the relationship of each and every
employer. So, it builds trust, and that is a very important part to
providing good employment services.

Interviewer:  Absolutely. What I am hearing is that you have long
standing relationships with employers in your community.  I bet that
employers call you to get someone referred to them at this point. Is
that true?

John Luna: That is correct. For me being here the length of time that I
have been, I have developed relationships with employers that were there
at the time [beginning], and then with new employers as they came along.
They [employers] understand that we provide satisfied employees, which
satisfy the employers, themselves. It is a matter of trust that when
they hire one of our potential employees, they know that we will come to
them with a good, reliable, dependable employee.

Slide #3

How would you recommend for a new program that has never done this
before to get started?

* Look at your own networking sources: o Family members o Someone from
another company o Churches o Social circles o Business circles (e.g.
Chamber of Commerce)

* Look locally and break it down. * Build on the network of trust; then
it spreads.

Interviewer:  I would be interested in hearing, if you could think back
to when you first got started, how a new program, in a community that
has never done this before, get started? Because I bet that is what
people are thinking about right now.

John Luna:  I think sometimes we overlook our own networking sources. It
could be a family member, somebody who works for another company. It
could be somebody in our church circles, somebody in our social circles,
or somebody in our business circles. Whether it is the Chamber of
Commerce or any other local [business]. You start with a small circle,
and you know those folks around you. So you have to believe in yourself
and you ask people, "Who do you know that can assist us in placing
folks?"

It is one of those [activities] where you cannot look at it way out on a
big screen.  You have got to look at it very locally, and break it down.
Almost from a house to a block and then spin it in a circle. Then you
are enlarging as you go. Also, it is very important to ask the
individual that you are serving and ask the family members. Somebody who
knows somebody, who knows somebody; it broadens out the circle. You are
building on the network of trust. Then it spreads like that. You do one
at a time.

Interviewer:  That is excellent advice John. We should suggest to
people, who are listening to think about even how they got their first
jobs. It is typically that somebody knew somebody, who knew somebody
else.

John Luna:  Right. That is a key point.  It is that somebody helped us
when we first started in our work life. Whether it was our parents, our
brother, someone that we knew on our first job that is how we got our
job. That is key.  Never forget that, because it is basically what we
are doing.

Slide #4

Describe some of your work related to networking through the Chamber of
Commerce.

* Networking is based on relationships and getting to know the Chamber
members. * You have to market yourself and your business. * The agency
must change from social service mentality into a business mentality.

Interviewer:  You know one thing that you hear a lot now is to become a
member of your local Chamber of Commerce. I know that you particularly
have done a lot of work in that area. If you could just describe some of
your work related to networking through the Chamber of Commerce, I think
that would be really beneficial as well.

John Luna:  Again, it is based on relationships and getting to know the
Chamber members. They are very open to individuals from all businesses,
so you have to market yourself, your business, just like any other
business. The key thing is that you are getting to know people who can
make major decisions in your respective community, and they know
somebody who knows someone. It is a matter of changing from a social
service mentality into a business mentality. What we are providing is an
opportunity for a larger employment pool for the respective businesses.





Slide #5

What types of wages do you advocate for the people with disabilities? *
The wage is whatever the local wage would be for that respective job. *
We are bringing an individual who can and will do the job to the
satisfaction of the employer.

Interviewer:  I think that sometimes people do not believe strongly
enough in the services that they provide so they shortchange those
services. You will hear people saying, "Well, should the person earn
minimum wage? Or should I negotiate for less than minimum wage?" Please
speak to the value of the individuals that you are representing to the
business and what types of wages you tend to advocate for the people
with disabilities.

John Luna:  First of all, the wage is whatever the local wage would be
for that respective job. We are not asking for a handout on a job. We
are not asking to start someone minimum wage. If the job starts at seven
dollars an hour than that is the part that we are doing. We are bringing
an individual who can and will do the job to the satisfaction of the
employer. The employer does not have a problem paying someone who can do
the job. It is one of those things that you have really got to look at.
Here is what I have. I have a good, reliable, dependable employee.
Because the employer wants a reliable, dependable employee and someone
who will show up at work each and every day and not be thinking about
what they are going to be doing on the weekend or vacation, someone who
can do the job.

What we are doing is providing that quality employee. What we have found
is that, many times, there are more opportunities for employment because
some people [do not] want to work for their money. Everyone would like
to receive a check, but you have to work for it. We are providing good
employees, and because of the reputation and the trust factor that we
have brought to the employer, it just spreads with that.

Interviewer:  That really speaks to a point you made a few minutes ago,
which really is making sure that your agency is functioning from a
business perspective versus a human service perspective. You are
bringing value to the company. You are a business; you are not a human
service agency just trying to get somebody a job in the community,
because it is a good thing to do.

John Luna:  Right. Many times employers will state that they give ten to
twenty thousand dollars to the United Way. They have done their social
community part. But still they are looking for employees and that is the
key that we are bringing to them, is employees.




Slide #6

What recommendations do you give to a program that believes employers
are not particularly open to hiring people with disabilities?

* Educate the employer. * Develop a relationship and build trust with
and guide the employer. * Have another employer, who this employer
knows, talk about how hiring a person with a disability.


Interviewer:  You know sometimes I hear people say, employers are not
really open to hiring people with disabilities. What recommendations
might you give to a program that thinks they are finding employers are
not particularly open to hiring?

John Luna:  I think many times, when you hear that employers are not
open to hiring people with disabilities, they do not know what a
disability means. They are not aware of it. They are not sure whether
they can do the job. So, you have to make them aware, you have to
educate the employer; you have to develop a relationship. Build up trust
with the employer and guide him through that. Once he sees that, then he
will hire employees. Better yet, have another employer who [the
employer] knows in his same business circle talk to him. Say, "Yes, I
was a little nervous and afraid about hiring a person with disabilities,
but I did and it has been a great thing."

Interviewer:  Again, playing back to your network of past-satisfied
customers in a way in helping you out.

John Luna:  Exactly. It is like anything else that we do. If we go to a
store, and we are satisfied with their products and service, we are
going to go back to that store. Whether they cost a dollar or two more,
because we may get something at a lower price. But if the quality of the
service is not there, it does not matter, and you do not go back. But
you go to where the quality of service is.



Slide #7

How could an employment specialist work with an employer to identify the
employment needs within the business?

* Go and speak to the employer and just let him relax. * Don't ask him
to hire anybody right now. * Present him an option in his employment
resource pool. * Ask to take a walk through his business. Point out that
you have people who can do the work. * Make the employer aware that a
person with a disability can do the job. * Continue to build
relationships and develop trust with employers.

Interviewer: Could you give us an example of how an employment
specialist or an employment consultant could work with an employer to
identify the needs within the business that you could meet?

John Luna:  Going into the business, what we do is go and speak to the
employer and just let him relax at that time. Tell him that we are not
going to ask him to hire anybody right now. We just want to present him
an option that he may not have thought of in his employment resource
pool. Then, we sometimes ask to take a walk through his business and
say, "You know we have some people who can do this. We can match with
this [job]. It will not cost you any extra amount for this person who
could do the job. It would be the same amount."

You build that relationship and trust as you are walking through.  As
you are pointing these things out at the same time you are making him
more aware of a person with a disability who can do the job. And you
educate him about the factors of "Here is another pool of employees that
I have never thought of before."

Interviewer:  You hear some people saying, "Now, there is a current
economic slowdown and that is going to impact the employment of people
with disabilities." Has that impacted your community, John? How do you
see that?

John Luna:  It has off and on. Mainly I would say yes. We have to work a
little harder but it does not stop the individuals from becoming
employed. You know I was reading some studies that say between now and
2010 there will be more jobs than there are workers.  With that in mind,
we go out to the employer and bring him reliable employees. We have to
work a little harder and maybe sometimes they do not want to hire as
quickly. Maybe we go from 5 placements a month to 3, still that is good,
because we are focusing in on the job span and at the same time we are
making sure we are retaining the individuals in employment.

It is a double edge with that. You have to maintain the folks that you
have working out there plus place the new ones. What you really have to
do is, you cannot settle with "Oh, no one is hiring this week". You have
to continue to build those relationships. Develop that trust; because
when they do start hiring you want to be ready.





Slide #8

How does your agency go about helping new employment specialists develop
the skills that you are talking about?

* We look for someone who can market and sell. * We train them by
shadowing another employment specialist to see how to sell and market. *
We look for someone in the Chamber who is a salesperson to work with our
individuals on selling and marketing.

Interviewer:  Those are really key points you made today. Let me ask you
this as well. I know that one issue would be helping new employment
specialists develop the skills that you are talking about. How does your
agency go about doing that John?

John Luna:  First of all, it is all part of the hiring process. When we
provide the interviewing, we are looking for someone who can market, and
someone who can sell. Sometimes, during our interview process, we try to
stretch the potential employment specialist to see whether they can
really sell, and whether they can close. In fact, one of the questions
that we ask them to do is that we have some props and we will just ask
them to sell us something. Whether it would be a clock or a pin, they
would have to sell.  We, in turn, tend to stretch to see how much, you
know, how much could they sell us, could we get a discount? During the
interview process, they have to think quickly on their feet about how to
sell and market to us, at the same time trying to look good during the
interview.

Interviewer:  That is a great plan. It is not really selling a person
with a disability, per se, but just a product, any product.

John Luna:  Exactly.

Interviewer:  That is a great idea.

John Luna:  Then when they come through, we train them and they will
shadow someone who has been in for a few years as an employment
specialist. They will go with them for a week to see how to sell, the
sale and marketing, and how we do that. Many times we, myself and the
managers, will ask them to come into the office and then continually
press and educate and make them aware of salesmanship tips.

Sometimes I will get from the Chamber, information or we will have
someone from the Chamber who is a salesperson, maybe in the department
of pharmaceuticals or whatever, to work with our individuals on some
tips on how to continue and how to get better in selling and marketing.
So again, it is from the business standpoint. Every community has folks
who would love to assist people to get better. You have to utilize your
respective community leaders. Because they want to help others, and
everyone wants to share their skills, someone who is really good in the
business community who is a marketing and selling expert.  We have some
folks who we know that are insurance salesmen who know the salesman
skills that can help market us. They can do a great job of doing that.
Many times we get free expert training, because sometimes the salesmen
have gone to really high dollar specialized classes on how to sell, and
they share their information free.

Interviewer:  Is that done more on an informal basis or have you had
people come and actually speak to your employment specialists?

John Luna:  Well both, it is informal, because we built the
relationships and built the trust. They in turn will come in and take
thirty, forty minutes to talk to our employment consultants.

Interviewer:  Again, back to that key word "networking" isn't it?

John Luna:  Yes. And that is the key. Whether it would be Chamber,
church, social, family; the networking is the key. It takes work. It is
not easy. It is over and beyond what we are supposed to do, but you have
to do it in order to provide a good community rehab program.


Slide #9

How do you pay for this kind of networking, because it does not seem
like it fits nicely into any kind of funding niche?

* Someone in the organization has to network. * There needs to be a
commitment to not only networking, but having the skills to talk the
employer, but not from a social service mentality.

Interviewer:  John as I am listening to you talk now, I could see some
people having questions related to funding. How do you pay for this kind
of networking, because it does not seem like it fits nicely into any
kind of funding niche?

John Luna:  It does not, right off the bat.  You could either work
twenty hours trying to get into the door of a business or by networking
you could get in for five. It is one of building trust.  It does not fit
into a nice little niche of the payment system at all, but it is either
simply, pay me now pay me later, like the old commercial that used to be
on TV. If you do not do networking, your job is going to be much, much
harder.

Networking whether it would be the director or whether it would be the
manager, but someone in the organization has to do that. It has to be a
commitment to not only networking but also having the skills to be able
to talk the employer about hiring people with disabilities, and not from
a social service mentality.  You are not asking for dollars out there,
you are asking for potential employees. Because what you are doing is
that once you have placed somebody in that job, they become a taxpayer.
They also assist in buying things locally, which increases the tax base.
In essence, all the dollars that the CRP is getting, comes from the
taxpayers. So what you are doing, basically, is providing more
taxpayers. In the long run, you are helping yourself.

Slide #10

How much do you talk about the person's disabilities when you are
talking with the employer?

* We do not sell a person with a disability. * We are selling the
individual's skills and abilities to do the job. * Employers do not want
to hear about the disability. * They want to hear if the person can do
the job.

Interviewer:  Another question that really comes to mind, I think, is
the age old question of how much do you talk about the person's
disabilities when you are talking with the employer? Could you speak to
that for just a minute?

John Luna:  We do not sell a person with a disability. What we are
selling is the individual's skills and abilities to do the job. We have
found employers do not want to hear about the disability. They want to
hear if the person can do the job. Will they show up on time? Does he
have the skills to produce, and can he be an asset to the company? The
thing is, no one is interested in the disability except, usually, the
CRPs or the Social Service Agencies. We have to go beyond that into the
business like world.

Interviewer:  I really appreciate your sharing that based on the
experience that you have. Because, I think that one of the biggest
barriers to marketing really is the human service agency getting stuck
on trying to "educate" the employer about disabilities.

John Luna:  Yes. You can spend a lot of time with that and the employer
is going to be thinking about why you are talking about disabilities and
is going to be thinking about maybe some of the organizations that he
donated to. Whether it is the United Way, so therefore you are going to
lose the first six or seven minutes of the conversation. If you have
lost the conversation with a businessperson, it is over. You have to go
from the business standpoint of employers. You have good employees. You
stick with that. You do not switch over to, "Well this person has a
disability and has an IQ of blah, blah, blah and he has dexterity." The
employer does not want to know the psychological and medical terms for
everything.

Interviewer:  I would wholeheartedly agree with you.  I just wanted to
make sure that we brought that point up, because I think it is really
critical. This might be one of the barriers that we even bring to the
situation that stops it [our marketing attempts] from being successful.

John Luna:  Sometimes this is our biggest obstacle - ourselves!

Interviewer:  That is very true don't you think?

John Luna:  Yes.



Slide #11

Do you have any final recommendations about finding jobs of choice for
people with disabilities?

* Talk about potential good employees. * Do not talk about disabilities.
* Talk about the opportunities that this person needs to get a job. *
Talk about how the individual becomes a taxpayer.

Interviewer:  John, you have shared some really valuable points with us
this morning. In summary, I would ask if you have any final
recommendations about finding jobs of choice for people with
disabilities?

John Luna:  The final recommendations I would give are to stay from the
business mind and talk about potential good employees. Do not talk about
disabilities, but talk about the opportunities that this person needs to
get a job. Talk about the individual becoming a taxpayer. He stops being
a tax user. He increases the tax base; he buys clothes and food in the
respective community. He is helping himself.  What we are doing is
providing individuals opportunities to help themselves. We in the CRP
world are not providing obstacles and reasons that they cannot do it,
but we are providing opportunities of why they can do things. The matter
is just to make it happen. Just do it.

Interviewer:  Thanks John. I think you have provided us with some real
valuable information on how to assist people to become a part of their
community.

John Luna:  That is what it is all about; they are a part of the
community. All they are wanting is opportunity to become a participant
and not a standby.