SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1Customized Employment: An Interview with Michael
Callahan

Slide 1: How did customized employment evolve?

Individualized Supported Employment

Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor The U.S. Department of Labor

The Office of Disability Employment Policy


Transcript Slide 1

Interviewer:  Today we are very fortunate to have with us Michael
Callahan, and he is going to be talking about customized employment. 
Mike, thank you for agreeing to this interview today, and we're glad to
have you here.

Michael Callahan:  Glad to be here.

Interviewer:  Great.  Well we're just going to jump in and get started. 
So, the first question that I'd like to ask you is:  How did the
term-customized employment evolve?

Michael Callahan:  Different people might reach the answer that I'm
about to give you in different ways.  Let me tell you how I perceive the
evolution, or how the term evolved.  I have the clearest lineage back to
what we have called in the supported employment field, individualized
supported employment.  People started doing [individualized supported
employment] as an alternative or maybe as a focus better said, to the
more group based forms of employment.

However, individualized supported employment was not always customized. 
Often, we would just be talking about one individual at a time.  For
those of us in the field that were working with people who had more
significant disabilities starting probably in the late 80's through the
90's, we realized that the employment relationship had to be negotiated,
had to be amended and adapted for each individual that we're going to
employ. And though we didn't use the term, we were using job
restructuring concepts and job carving and other labels that had been
given to what I would refer to now as customized employment.

The actual coining of the term seems to have occurred following a speech
that our current Secretary of Labor, Elaine Choa, made just after her
acceptance of her position upon being confirmed by the U.S. Senate back
in 2001. I guess, right after the elections.  In that speech, Ms. Choa
referred to customization as a trend in the labor market.  Within 6
months of her speech, folks at the Office of Disability Employment
Policy, a new office within the U.S. Department of Labor, put forth in
the Federal Register, a major initiative from the U.S. Department of
Labor. They termed that initiative "Customized Employment".  At the time
I frankly thought that the term might be confusing, because the
Workforce Investment Act already contains a concept called "Customized
Training".  And I felt that it might be fairly easy to confuse the two
terms.  As it turns out, I think customized employment has emerged as a
useful concept to describe the individualized concepts that we were
exploring in the 80's and 90's with the opportunity to customize the
employment relationship in a way that I think is necessary for people
with more significant disabilities. Slide 2: What are the key elements
of a customized employment approach?

The Individual "Discovery" and the Vocational Profile Customized
Planning and Individualized Job Development

The Employer Job Development Negotiation Disclosure of an Individual's
Disability

Transcript Slide 2

Interviewer:  Playing on what you just said, Mike, could you go into
what the key elements of a customized employment approach includes?

Michael Callahan:  You want to think about this from two sides, because
customized employment is basically, I'm not sure two dimensional is the
correct term to use, but it certainly happens from two different
perspectives.  It happens from the individual that you're representing
and getting to know, and it happens from the employer's side.  So, you
have to think about these elements from both sides of this perspective. 
Let's start with the individual's side.

The term that I have been using lately to describe the first element is
discovery.  Discovery is a concept. True customization comes from who
the individual is, not an arbitrary norm, not a necessarily arbitrary
need in the labor market, but who is this person?  And so that's an
activity that must occur as a foundation for good customization. 
There's probably also, since paper is the oil of any bureaucracy, there
will be a need to capture that discovery in some way.  There are a
number of alternatives to do that. I've been associated with a concept
called a vocational profile as a way of capturing the information
learned during discovery. But any number of options that says to the
funding source, "here's what we learned", would be appropriate.

I think the keystone, the linchpin, for good customization is a plan
that is truly customized and to do that, the plan has to be based on the
information learned in discovery.  It's got to be a blank sheet sort of
plan to begin with, not one predetermined by services.  But one that
asks all members of a representative group, certainly that involves both
professionals, but beyond that people not paid to be at the meeting
representing the individual's best interests and assisting the
individual as that individual may need or want in articulating what's
important to them.  So, the customized planning process, I think, is
very, very important. And also within that process is something that I
don't see too often in planning.  And that is, in order to truly
customize, to increase the likelihood that a resulting job will feel
customized to the individual, we actually need to direct job development
within the plan.  Not just saying to the job developer, "Okay, here's
basically what I want. You go out and find the places in the community
in which that might happen."  And so, we're actually bringing a piece of
prospect that would have traditionally been in job development, outside
the plan, into the plan so we truly have a sense that we're wrapping it
as much as we can.  So that's really from the individual's perspective.

Now from the employer's perspective, I think one of the main ingredients
is the idea of negotiation that we're putting negotiation on the table. 
We're basically saying that we're looking at an arbitrary probably
predetermined; employment concept, and we want to try to customize that.
It has to be voluntary, as best we can tell the Americans with
Disabilities Act does not require that.  So the employers will be
voluntarily negotiating, and we're going to need to have negotiation
skills and strategies as part of that.

Another element that I feel is important is putting the issue of
disability on the table, rather than keeping it off the table.  This has
to be a voluntary act by first the individual giving us clear authority
to disclose their disability. The rationale certainly is not a charity
rationale at all. It is the reason for customization, and it allows the
employer to understand why someone may want to customize his or her job
description on behalf of this individual's needs.  I think once an
employer begins to understand that, they're prepared then to accept the
unique contributions that an individual might bring. And it really
allows us a great deal of flexibility to get into all sorts of
interesting and connected workplaces that relate back to the
individual's customized job ideals.  So those would be the elements, I
think, in a nutshell that we would want to think about in trying to
customize a job for a person. Slide 3: Disclosure

Voluntary / Written Permission Impact on Performance vs. Diagnosis
Rationalizing Customization to the Employer Representation

Transcript Slide 3

Interviewer:  Mike, I think what comes to mind as I listen to you
explain some of the key concepts of customized employment, really is the
whole issue of disclosure. I know that some individuals would say that
they didn't want to disclose to the employer their disability.  How
would you respond to that within the concept of customized employment?

Michael Callahan:  You know I sure understand and support not only that
feeling but of course it's built into our legal system of people not
having to disclose a disability in order to become employed. So, I
understand that.  The problem emerges in customization, that the
employer does need a rationale for understanding why would a job need to
be customized?  And I think the issue of disability is a real-world
logical issue of why a job needs to be customized.  But it's very
important for me to say, I don't think I said it clearly enough in the
previous question, that any disclosure has got to be voluntary on the
part of the individual.  The individual has to give us permission. In
fact I recommend written permission. And, in fact I ask that individual
to help me determine the best manner in which to disclosure their
disability.  For instance, I refrain to the greatest degree possible
from ever using a diagnosis or any kind of medical condition.  I try to
refer to the impact of disability on performance as compared to the
disability label and that can often help.

The interesting thing is and it's beyond interesting, it's probably a
problematic issue. If we don't disclose, I think customization is going
to be quite a bit more difficult.  You're going to be putting the
employer into a position of beginning to guess, "why would this person
be wanting this customization?"  I think any person can try to customize
a job regardless of disability. But, all of us who would do that would
need to have a rationale the employer could understand.  So if people
are to seek customized employment without wanting to disclose their
disability, they're going to have to hone a much clearer rationale in
two areas.  1) Why I want to customize my job so that the employer can
understand it?  2) Can I use a representative? And, I should have
actually included that as an ingredient or an element before.

Right now I feel like a representative is very likely to be needed, to
make this "negotiation" happen. And that's going to impact that
representative's rationale for being there.  The employer asking, "why
are you representing this person" is a reasonable question to ask.  I
think that we have a lot to learn about ways that individuals can
represent themselves and try to customize their jobs without disclosing
their disability.  There may be a day that we know how to do that, right
now I don't have the answers for that. Slide 4: Do you see the term
customized employment as another strategy or is it a broader term that
includes these other things that I've just mentioned?

No -- Customized employment is not another strategy.

Customized employment is compatible with supported employment. Can be
used with supported employment. Can be used separate from supported
employment.

Customized employment is an emerging and inclusive term.

Transcript Slide 4

Interviewer:  There are a number of strategies for assisting an
individual in achieving competitive employment.  Now, some of those
terms are supported employment, self-employment, job restructuring, job
carving, person-centered planning, and I'm sure there are many more that
I haven't mentioned.  Do you see the term customized employment as
another strategy or is it a broader term that includes these other
things that I've just mentioned?

Michael Callahan:  Very, very important question. I think the first way
that I will try to answer it is: I don't see it as another strategy. 
The interesting thing is, I'm not sure if it's a broader term or a
sub-term. And, I'm not sure even if it matters. But, I think what does
matter in terms of this question is that customized employment is
completely compatible and either resides within or above supported
employment, self-employment, job restructuring, etc.

Meaning that within, let's say the broadest of these terms would be
supported employment. Within supported employment, to me, the basic
concept is the support that we offer.  We can do that in any number of
ways. But, the traditional supports that were tethered to buildings are
unhitched and allowed to follow the individual as needed in the
community.

And obviously with that, a person who has a job customized might need
supported employment.  It might also be possible, I think, to customize
a job for an individual with a disability or anyone else for that
matter, who might not need the supports of supported employment. So, in
that sense, customized employment would be a broader term. But, within
supported employment we have many perspectives, and there might be
individuals who need supported employment, who might not need a
customized job.  So in that sense the term exists within supported
employment.

I think it's important, from my perspective, not to set up a distinction
between customized employment and supported employment that puts us at
odds.  We just have to embrace the concept whether it is an overall
concept or concept embedded within the defining issue of supported
employment and use it when an individual wants or needs the relationship
with an employer to be customized from the arbitrary.  And, that's the
main issue for me.  So maybe that will help the audience get a
perspective. And we're really not saying, well there has been supported
employment and now there's this new thing and you need to decide.  In
fact, it is a concept completely compatible with all of these issues.

Interviewer:  Well that makes it a lot clearer. I think what I've been
trying to do is say, "here's supported employment and here's customized
employment."  But as you've just explained it, it really is a concept
that can merge in and out of each other.

Michael Callahan:  That's exactly what I'm thinking. And the good news
here is, going back to Secretary Chao's comments that she made in her
speech, she linked the issues of customization with all of us.  So,
wouldn't it be nice, in the area of supported employment, to have a
concept that is actually rooted in the employment relationship of all
workers and not just for people with disabilities?

Now, it's accurate to say that the Department of Labor's initiatives
that I referred to earlier, are focused on people with disabilities
using customized strategies within One-Stop Career Centers to welcome
people with disabilities.  I actually hope that the Department of Labor
will broaden that concept to anyone who might need [customized
employment], say a welfare mom with a complex life or a woman returning
from raising kids to the job market who wants to go to work but doesn't
necessarily want to fit into a regular job description but would like to
have something customized.  Or, a person getting a little older in life
and wanting to continue to work and not just on a part-time job but
really customizing their skills to meet some needs of an employer. Any
of us could use this concept, so in that sense, it's nice to have
something that supported employment can be totally compatible with and
yet not necessarily have to be totally defined by either.  So, I think
if we can keep it from being an "either-or" but an inclusive term, we
can all embrace it, use it when it's necessary and probably help define
it, because this is still an emerging term in terms our understanding of
it in the use of employment. Slide 5: Training Competencies

Getting to Know the Person Finding the Individual's Voice Negotiating
with the Employer New and Effective Representation

Transcript Slide 5

Interviewer:  Mike, could you speak for a few minutes about, as you see
it, what the specific training competencies are for someone implementing
a customized employment approach?

Michael Callahan:  Sure.  Again, let's start with the [key] elements. We
have a lot more to learn about the qualitative issues of discovery.  We
just need to learn how to be with people in an intentional way, not just
being with them in the daily way that we do our jobs. But, being with
people to figure out, "who are you?" and what does it tell me about what
you might want for work?  And I think that's a skill that has to be
honed.

I think we also need to work as hard as we've been working and even
harder to develop our skills around bringing a person's voice into the
planning process.  True customization starts with the individual. And, I
think finding the individual's voice requires both skills and a value
perspective.  And, the better we know how to do that, the more we
practice that, the more we welcome, for instance, the complexity of
non-professionals into planning that alone helps assure that the
person's voice is heard.  I think it's actually a skill-set, at one
level it's a value. "Do I do it?" "Do I enter into this complexity?" But
then when it happens, when I have grandma at the table, when I have
Uncle Fred at the table, I have to learn how to welcome their voices and
hear them and then return to the individual to make sure that it makes
sense for the person.  So, these are the interesting set of skills.

From the employer side, we need to know much more about negotiation. 
Some negotiators that I've been reading tend to indicate that human
service people put all of their negotiation points on the table.  We
kind of pile them up hoping that the employer will say, "Yes, I'll give
you this. I'll give you this." And actually for good customized
employment, you need to learn how to negotiate.  And I guess the final
skills set, I think we need to develop, are new and more effective ways
of representing the person, so that the employer can actually understand
this.  And I think we're looking at visual representation media of a
sort that can be developed by a job developer. I'm not talking about
going to a Madison Avenue Ad Agency here, I'm talking about just using
good common sense imagery and narrative in ways that can help explain to
an employer what might seem to be a complex concept.  I think if we do
those things, if we hone our presentational and representational skills,
if we hone our negotiation and really learn how to listen to a person,
and get to know them, we add that to the mix of skills we've been trying
to learn in supported employment for years, and I think customized
employment can be successful. Slide 6: Are there any particular
strategies for approaching employers when using a customized employment
approach?

The Planning Meeting

Effective Job Development

Visual Representation and the "Sales Pitch Book"

Portfolio and an Employment Proposal

Transcript Slide 6

Interviewer:  Are there any particular strategies for approaching
employers when using a customized employment approach?

Michael Callahan:  Yes, I think first it starts in the planning meeting.
By bringing identification of employers into the planning meeting, we
can at the meeting, identify and try to access any connections that may
exist between the individual and then among the players in the meeting
and the employers and the community.  So it's very important not to miss
that opportunity to get the kinds of connections and referrals and
relationships that exist with employers. And, I think it's important not
to just presume that's the job developer's job, and we put that on the
job developer's shoulders.  That form of job development feels very
isolating, I think, and you feel very exposed as a job developer feeling
like "you know I've got this job to do and I really don't have all the
support I need."  Job development and connected job development aught to
be job one within any organization during employment, supported
employment, customized employment of any form.

Another particular approach I'd like to talk about that I referenced in
the previous question, is the use of a visual representational strategy.
  We've been finding a great deal of success with a presentation
portfolio approach that uses images and narrative pages in a free
standing form, in the trade and sales it's called a pitch book. Sales
people have used it for years.  We have not brought that concept into
our field.  This is an image thing, primarily for employers to get a
clear picture in their heads about what we mean by customized
employment. Using imagery and to the point sound-byte narrative that
makes sense, really can help an employer understand a concept.  That if
we just kind of turn it over to the employer, they're not going to get
to where we need them to be, simply by saying, what could work for you?
You know we have to actually take the opportunity to make a
presentation, and we need the tools necessary to make an effective
presentation in a way that at the end, the employer says: "I think I see
where you're going with this and here's how I feel about it; or here's
what I would need from this. Or, you know that really doesn't work for
me."  And that's fine too, because we've made a true business
presentation and offered a proposal. We can now feel confident to go to
the next employer, hoping we'll be successful.

Interviewer:  A question comes to my mind right there.  How would an
employment proposal be different from your portfolio, or are they
similar?

Michael Callahan:  In a sense, the portfolio presents the proposal. 
It's the structure for presenting a proposal and when I say a proposal
here, it's a verbal conceptual proposal, not necessarily a written
proposal that I'd like for you to look over. But more, "here's this
presentation" and within it, this portfolio helps assists you in making
your proposal to the employer.  And what you're proposing is, first the
concept of customization and the rationale for it. Your organization's
credentials as it were, what you've done in the past.  How you go about
the process, which by the way comes right back into building natural
supports and supported employment as part of the proposal. And then
finally, the final part of the proposal is "here's the individual I'm
representing and what they can offer you."  And with that, the employer
then has an understanding, "I see, I see who you are. I see what you're
background is. I see how you do it, and I see whom you're representing. 
Now, I can think about this person and the value to my organization
given these things that they offer."  That's the proposal. Slide 7:
Critical Features of Customized Employment

Employment Specialist Perspective Begin with "Discovery" and Planning.
Identify tasks that the individual can offer to an employer.

Employer's Perspective Job description is a barrier to employment. Need
to see tasks as the building block for a customized job description.

Transcript Slide 7

Interviewer:  Michael, I know that you have a lot of experience with job
restructuring as a technique that promotes employment for people with
significant disabilities.  What would you say are the critical features
of this process that an employment specialist and also the employer
should be aware of?

Michael:  From the employment specialist side, it begins with the
individual and the discovery and planning process.  For me, one of the
last components of a good customized employment plan is the
identification of a set of tasks that actually become the negotiating
strategies of the customized interaction with an employer.   They are
the ingredients, the raw materials, of a customized job description or a
set of tasks that you learn in discovery that an individual can offer to
a community employer.

From the employer's side, employers are likely because of tradition,
U.S. Labor Law, and the Americans with Disabilities Act, to default to
job descriptions when thinking about "can this person work here."  That
job description often stands as a barrier for a person who needs a
customized relationship in order to be employed.  Therefore, in order to
get around the default position that the employer's likely to take, it's
necessary to clearly promote tasks as the building blocks of this
customized job description.

As I was talking about the portfolio in previous questions, the tasks
are actually the last component of the portfolio.  It provides the
segue, the last thing the employer sees in the customized proposal that
the job developer makes.  This is the set of tasks to be offered by the
individual. That allows the employer to think of tasks in a way that
employer's have thought about in terms of essential responsibilities,
based on the Americans with Disabilities Act. The employer then puts
those tasks together into a job description.

What a customized proposal does, is untie all of those tasks that exist
in a work place and make them amenable to being targeted and brought
back together; reassembled within a customized job description.  It
actually makes perfect sense, once an employer understands it that way. 
But, if the proposal doesn't help the employer see the task connection
to customized employment, it can seem to be a complexity. "Well I don't
see what you're talking about but here's the way that we do it," and
you're right back to where you started.  So again, for me, the primary
strategy with employers is taking a task perspective around customized
employment.  That helps that basic set of customized responsibilities
instead of essential responsibilities; think about them as customized
responsibilities of the new job description. Slide 8: How do you
recommend that employment specialists involve coworkers and facilitate
natural supports in the workplace?

Natural supports are a cultural issue within the workplace.

An employee, in a supported customized relationship, would start exactly
the same as any employee but with supports.

Transcript Slide 8

Interviewer:  How do you recommend that employment specialists involve
coworkers and facilitate natural supports in the workplace?

Michael Callahan:  We go back to the best that we've always known in
supported employment. And I think that "best" is starting with the
employer.  I've mentioned the portfolio several times and in that
presentation and that proposal, one of the things that my portfolio
would say to an employer, would be: "We start with doing things your
way."

For me, natural supports are far more a cultural issue within a
workplace than necessarily a strategy that human service people bring to
a workplace.  And I think if we've made mistakes in the past about
natural supports, we've taken a term, which isn't us.  If something is
natural it's not us. It's not that we're unnatural; we're just
artificial, alien to the workplace, in the way.

In order to be natural, for me, the easiest touchstone is...what is this
workplace?  Who works here?  How do they do things?  Start with that and
also, if not insisting, at least working very hard to have it so that an
employee, on a supported customized relationship with an employer would
start exactly the same any employee would: with our supports. And it
would be hard for an employer to come up with a rationale, why a person
would not start the same way anyone else would, with supports.  I can
understand an employer having a concept or having a concern, maybe we
can't start in a way different from everyone else that would have to be
negotiated.

So for me, it all starts by the cultural perspective, the cultural
appreciation. And in doing that, I think we teach employers every time a
problem emerges, in terms of a natural way of doing things. Our response
builds capacity within the workplace. If all we do is kind of carve out
a space for us to work with a supported employee, we are creating a
difference from the beginning that then we have to kind of sell to the
workplace.  And I think workplaces aren't always buying what we have to
sell in terms of how different it might look.  Where as if we start with
the way they do things, we might reach the same place, in fact I hope we
reach the same place, if that's what the person needs. But, then the
company understands because they're buying in from their perspective. 
So, for me, it's that cultural sort of appreciation for every workplace.
I think almost a harsh thing to say, but a real thing to say, is: if a
job developer's in a work place and the culture of that workplace is not
at all friendly to any sort of notion of treating a person with a
disability in a manner similar that they would treat another employee,
that's probably not a good workplace for that person to be working. 
Because they're not going to be very likely to really embrace the kind
of strategies that I think are part of good natural supports. Slide 9:
How does the implementation of customized employment, which might seem
labor intensive, reconcile with natural supports?

Natural supports and the supports provided by an employment specialist
are compatible.

Support by the job coach should "prepare" the workplace for providing
natural supports.

It may take intensive effort to facilitate good natural supports.

Done well, the up front investment has the greatest likelihood of paying
off.

Transcript Slide 9

Interviewer:  Mike, I know that you're a leader in the field related to
the concept of natural supports. I'd really like to ask you: How does
the implementation of customized employment, which might seem labor
intensive, reconcile with natural supports?

Michael Callahan:  You know it causes me to really think about how I
feel about natural supports from the beginning.  And, in a former
question I answered that natural supports is not of us, it's of the
places we want to try to help people be.  I think I've always
disconnected the issue of good natural supports from the supports that
we offer.

I think the two things can be compatible and in fact always have been
for me. I've not had in my perspective necessarily saving the system
resources by going to a natural support approach.  So therefore when I
think about the intensiveness, the intensiveness is to prepare for
natural supports. It may be every bit, if not more intensive, than what
we used to do before when we were the primary people doing the support.

I don't want to be glib about it, but I do think it's important that
naturalness exists beyond us whether we're there or not. And it may take
a great deal of energy and for some people it will take a great deal of
energy to make sure that the natural systems are available and are
responsive to the needs of people with disabilities.  It's not simply
turning over and facilitating the handshake.  It can be a very intensive
behind the scenes professional or field effort that actually facilitates
good natural supports in a meaningful way.

Now having said that, I would expect, I think as most would, that if we
do this well, we make an investment in facilitating natural supports
from the get-go.  For me, that starts with the individual; natural
support starts with bringing family members and others and friends into
the equation at times when it may be more efficient for us to just do
it.  It involves helping employers understand that we start by doing
things their way.

Having done all of that intensively at the beginning, I would be like
anyone else, hoping that there would be a payoff, hoping that we would
reap the benefit.  Not only of a naturally experienced job employment
relationship with the employer, which for me, is the more important
component of natural supports. I want the employee to experience that
relationship in as natural a way as possible, even if there might be
intensive supports going on in the background. But, I would sure hope
that we do that well, that's kind of my premise on this.  Done well the
up front investment has the greatest likelihood of paying off so that we
actually teach natural systems to respond to the needs of people with
disabilities.  We might remain as a resource over a long period of time,
but we would hope that resource would diminish in terms of their need
for us or not that the resource would diminish, but the need would
diminish somewhat.  Which is kind of getting at the same point, so again
upfront investment for long-term savings, if you want to think about it
that way. Slide 10: What are the significant issues and events that
have facilitated the employment of individuals with disabilities?

Marc Gold offered us a technology that allowed us to imagine that people
could learn.

Supports must follow the person.

"Pre" means never.

Choice and self-determination are absolutely critical features.

Transcript Slide 10

Interviewer:  In your opinion, what are the significant issues and
events that have facilitated the employment of individuals with
disabilities?

Michael Callahan:  This is a very, very interesting question.  This is
probably a terribly important question for us to reflect on.  I'll try
to keep my comments in a way that doesn't get us off kind of the
essentialness, because I'd love to digress on this question. There's
plenty of information to do that.  For me the very first awareness, like
number one was the concept brought in from the 70's of a training
technology that allowed us to imagine people with disabilities being
able to perform.  So we credit all the giants. And for me, Marc Gold
stands among those who really offered us a technology that allowed us to
imagine that we could teach, and people could learn.

I can almost remember the day in the early 80's when, at a TASH
conference, Lou Brown articulated the notion that supports could follow
the person. And, once we disassociated or disconnected supports from a
building, we were free then to take those supports wherever a person
needed them.  That was a huge concept, because I think we had only been
toying with that issue broadly. So, as supported employment began to
evolve and emerge, we needed somebody to clearly articulate that.

Also, I think "pre" means never: the mantra of the early 80's where we
really understood that people needed to learn and perform in the places
where they would actually be living their lives, especially as adults. 
It's not to say that schools are not appropriate and important, but for
adults, they needed to go ahead and live a life. That was another one of
those little concepts.

I think the whole issue of person-centeredness is one of those events
that make this all happen. We weren't just seeing people with
disabilities as unemployed members of the labor force, which is a
powerful enough image, but also as unique individuals.  We do count
gross numbers of people with disabilities, but our field has an "I" in
from of its "P", and so therefore we're interested in every individual. 
You don't see that "I" in front of the "P" in US Labor Law, so that
distinguishes us, I think, in supported employment and very importantly
in our endeavors to try to customize opportunities for people.

I think the beginnings of what we're now calling choice and
self-determination are absolutely critical features here. We're really
beginning to ask the question that shouldn't services not only follow
the individual, but also have the person at the center.  Actually
directed by the individual, and we even, of course in the 90's, began to
look at the public resources that had been set aside to offer those
services being under the direct control of the person. That will
continue to be an important concept within supported employment.

And then the last topic that I would bring up, there obviously are many,
many more we could talk about, but this entire concept of customization
of the kind of the ultimate individualizing of the employment
relationship. It really takes that first "I" that existed in the IWRP in
the '73 Rehab Act, now 30 years later. We actually have a way of
thinking about truly individualizes employment, not just the plan, but
employment. And so those to me would be kind of the large events that
stick out that really have facilitated employment of people with
disabilities in the community. Slide 11:  What would you see as the
primary challenge to overcome in terms of accessing quality competitive
employment opportunities?

We have to have employment as the default position.

Work is an assumed lifestyle for all people with disabilities.

Transcript Slide 11

Interviewer:  What would you see as the primary challenge to overcome in
terms of accessing quality competitive employment opportunities for
individuals with significant disabilities?

Michael Callahan:  To answer your question, I think of my 15-year-old
daughter. She doesn't have a disability, and her mom and I, her
grandparents, her school, her neighbors, her community, all think that
she is going to work as an adult.

We have to have employment as the default position. Not a choice to
work, but an assumed lifestyle for all people with disabilities. As it
is with all people and that simple notion whether it's played out at the
individual and family level, whether it's played out at the agency
level. What are we supposed to do?  It's played out at the funding
level, at the employer level, at the community level. I think the
primary issue is: Why wouldn't we see people with disabilities in need
of employment lifestyle just as we would see for our own kids?  It is
just as simple as that.

Interviewer:  In closing Mike, I'd ask what advice you would give to
agencies that want to move or change their current segregated programs
to integrated community employment?

Michael Callahan:  Well, I'd start with the adage of trying to eat an
elephant.  It's a pretty big task, and you can't do it all at one
sitting.  So, for those agencies that are taking the step to really
begin to embrace the concept that work in the community is an expected
lifestyle for people, start with individuals. Really get to know people.
And while I think there are agency strategies that you want to implement
from an organization clearly, [getting to know people] clearly moves
your organization along.

I can think of nothing better to do, than to target an individual, to
get to know that individual, to plan in a customized individualized way
and to have something happen for that individual that really shifts our
view of what we thought was possible. Or, even if it doesn't just to
where we look at the person and say "you know we really helped them get
as close to what they wanted as we possibly could."

In doing that, keep that exemplar in mind, and we do it again, and we do
it again. And that way the big job of this shift, which is not to be
taken lightly, is absolutely doable. We can then begin to build into
more of the organizational aspects. But, I really do recommend making it
happen. Having staff really see some of the possibilities of what can
happen when you truly individualize, when you truly customize. And when
you put your efforts in this direction, it can really be the foundation
that any organization would need to move from their current status to
something new or exciting.