Competitive Employment: Moving individuals from sheltered jobs into community jobs Interview with Nancy Brooks Lane Slide #1: Why move from facility based supports to community based supports? * It was the right thing to do from a values based perspective. * The new CEO embraced ideas for systems change. Interviewer: I would like to thank Nancy for joining us today to talk about competitive employment and moving individuals from sheltered jobs into community jobs. Nancy thanks for joining me today. Nancy Brooks-Lane: You are most welcome. Interviewer: Could you tell us something about yourself and why COBB and Douglas County's Community Services Board decided to move from facility based supports to community based supports? Nancy Brooks-Lane: For many years we had wanted to shift the focus. It was just the right thing to do from a values perspective. I actually grew up in Mississippi during the Civil Rights era and really saw the disability movement and the peace of the Civil Rights movement. There was an injustice to keeping folks segregated with sub-minimum wage as the type of payment that they received for what could be several hours of work and just pennies for payment. So from a values based perspective, there was that continual nagging that this was wrong. We had various leaders in the organization that had a different focus in terms of a more clinical focus, or maybe more of an interest in certain areas of a more traditional model of supporting people with disabilities. The attempts we made for change did not go anywhere, which really highlighted for me that you have to have the CEO buy-in to make any sort of systems change. Around 1999 a new CEO was hired who was very interested in innovation and embraced the ideas we had for systems change. That was the catalyst that enabled us to move forward. Interviewer: Thank you Nancy. Really it was somewhat of a top-down approach within your organization for systems change would you say? Nancy Brooks-Lane: Initially it was. We knew we had to have the support of the CEO to give it credence and to support our efforts in moving forward with the change. There were a lot of interesting things that happened during intense systems change, dynamic wise, with staff, community, parents and advocates. Things that you may not even think of; that you have got to have support at the leadership level, that “We are going to push through this difficult time; we are going to stick to the values that we have and move forward.” Slide #2: Staff’s reaction to change in service delivery plans * Some were open to change. * Some left as a result of the change. Interviewer: You just mentioned staff. I would be curious about what the staff's reaction was initially to the change in service delivery plans. Nancy Brooks-Lane: It was very mixed. The folks that had been in the system for many years were more reluctant to change. They were comfortable with understanding what their role was and the predictability of supporting people in a building. Some of the staff who was new to the system was much more open to change. We actually had some staff that left as a result of what we went through. Interviewer: That is probably just a natural evolution wouldn't you say? Nancy Brooks-Lane: Yes, I think it is very predictable, nothing to be concerned about, and I think it also opens up opportunities for people really to think about those bigger philosophies of life in terms of "Am I doing what I want to do?” I know that there was some staff that was somewhat antagonistic. There were some staff that left, but it was more like they were just struggling with the meaning of "Why? What do I want to do?” Some folks actually moved towards some decisions that they had been trying to make anyway. The systems change forced them to think it through. So I think that was a win-win for everybody. The staff that stayed with us, of course, they need a lot of support and reassurance. A big piece that I hope we get into during this conversation is the cultural change that you have to go through. Slide #3: How did the agency support staff in making the change? * Offered more flexibility. * Looked at the value of the organization. * Continued on-going self examination. * Developed a culture of creativity. * Allowed thoughtful risk taking. Interviewer: Actually that would be very interesting for our audience to hear. That plays around how your agency assisted the staff in making the change in your organization? Nancy Brooks-Lane: One thing that worked for us was that you can not have the business model that so many of us grew up with, that kind of eight to five thinking. That is when the important stuff happens. There has to be more flexibility in what a work day means and what an environment means. One thing that we started with was really looking at the value of our organization. Really challenging our attitudes, our practices, "What are we doing that is devaluating, oppressive, judgmental or really destructive?" We also took on the challenge of identifying what was conventional in what we were doing as well. That is something that permeates our culture now. Like in meetings, we will talk about the language that we are using and talking about the folks we support so there is ongoing self-examination that has to continue. It is not like "OK. We have done that. We are through." That has to be a part of the effort continually. We are always talking about where we are, what are we doing? And again, the language piece of that is really important. We also wanted to develop a culture of creativity. Staff had to be given more freedom. But before they are comfortable with the freedom, they have got to have the skills to be able to handle that freedom. There has to be supportive ideas and innovation. There has to be good trust. We use humor a lot. I think that is real important. And we use a course called Thoughtful Risk Taking. Staff need to know that it is OK to take risks that they are not going to be punished if it does not go as planned, because you learn much more from your mistakes than when things go smoothly. There are so many dimensions that are addressed through mistakes that you do not see when the world is perfect. Slide #4: Thoughtful Risk Taking * Brainstorm ways to tap into opportunities for folks. * Connect with the community. Interviewer: Nancy you have made a couple of really critical points as far as working within the culture of your organization and supporting staff and one thing that you said that perhaps as someone listening to this might like some clarification on, is the idea of "thoughtful risk taking". Nancy Brooks-Lane: As we were trying to look at opportunities to connect the folks we support in valued roles in their community through self employment, resource ownership, business within a business; we felt there was a natural kinship with the minority community; because of the struggle that they have had to deal with, the barriers that confront the individuals. In a planning meeting, we just began brainstorming on some ways we could tap into opportunities for folks and we came up with the thought of trying to develop some sort of coalition with the minority community both in a business fashion as well as identifying just who were those people in the community that hold power. We humbled ourselves and just went door to door and introduced ourselves; talked about what we were trying to accomplish; how we could support their efforts; how they could support us in being able to assist the folks we work with and from that we have a quarterly meeting of minority partners. As we become aware of an interest for the folks we work with, in terms of a career, we know who to call to say “Who do we need to be connected with in the community that can help make this happen for the individual we are working with?” Interviewer: I think one of the things that I hear more often these days is really just what you have just explained, the real key importance of being part of your community. Nancy Brooks-Lane: Definitely. If you had to siphon out everything and say what the most basic point of what we are trying to do is, it is making connections. That is what it is all about. Slide #5: Team of People in the Organization * Everyone is on the team. * The most important person is the customer. * It works in a real problem solving and decision making process. * The consumer drives the process. * We developed self-directed work teams. Interviewer: I would like to just ask one other clarification point. I can tell as I am listening to you speak that there is a team of people in your organization that are working together. I did not know whether you could elaborate on whom is on that team, how that team functions? Nancy Brooks-Lane: Actually, everybody is on the team and the most important person, of course, is our customer. It works in a real problem solving, decision making sort of way and those can be some of the most fun opportunities where people are relaxed and you are just letting your brain go. There is no right or wrong in terms of that initial phase of trying to solve problems or make decisions or work through issues. The consumer really drives that process; it is who is important to that person and who can help support them. Then of course, as we shifted our organizational structure, we spent time working with staff on how to develop self directed work teams. That is a key piece, and through that, for that to work, it has got to be very respectful of the staff in terms of their skills, their talents, what they bring to their job. They have got to have the freedom to really, in an authentic way, be a part of that process. Slide #6: Fostering a Culture of Creativity * Organization’s values have to be clear. * Leaders have to role model being creative. * Information expands people’s perspective. Interviewer: That sort of brings back or speaks to something that you said a few minutes ago, which I thought was a very interesting point that you made, and I believe you termed it as “a culture of creativity” and then fostering skills in the people in your organization. If you could sort of give us some ideas about how you foster that “culture of creativity” because a lot of times I think that might be a stopping point for some organizations or a barrier. It would be great to hear what you did. Nancy Brooks-Lane: I think first, the most important piece is you have got to start with that value aspect of who you are as an organization. The values have to be very clear. They have to be the yardstick that you use to make decision from during the systems change effort. That is so critical because there is a bit of chaos in terms of who you are as an organization as you are shifting and families are confused, the community may be confused and you are being told “Do this. Don't do that.” The way you maintain sanity at that point is that to go back to those values. “If we do this, does that fit with our values?” So that is critical, I can not say how important it is to spend time to really come up with that piece of who you are as an organization. From there, it gives you the framework to expand in all sorts of ways and that is where you can be so creative. I think as leaders you have got to role model being creative. In the early stages of training, where we did not really have any money and it only cost the price of the books and the video tapes we used, we brought in all kinds of information, again, just to expand people's perspective. We used literature. We used video tapes, movies and book studies. I guess one of the most moving videos, to give you an example of just how powerful that can be, was Titicut Follies by Frederick Wiseman. Are you familiar with that? Interviewer: No, not that particular one. Nancy Brooks-Lane: It is very moving, and it was filmed in the sixties. It is filmed in an institution. In one of the areas, the people are not even allowed to wear clothing. Those images just were so visceral in terms of staff being able to see the values stuff. It moves people forward to be able to couple other ideas that have to do with, “What are we doing as a society in terms of people who are on the fringe?” Slide #7: We follow a sociological aspect to change people’s view of what it means to be part of a work environment. * Challenge who we are and what we are doing. * Be flexible in what he work day means. * Let staff know they are integral to the process. * Use humor, role modeling, and brainstorming. * Hold people accountable. Interviewer: I think that one of the concerns often times that I see is that you do have staff that have never been exposed to some of those issues so it is kind of interesting that you would use that. I worked for four years in a state institution for my first job, and I have that as a reference point myself. I know that that is not where we want to be. It is interesting that you would use that as a piece of your values based training, because a lot of people have never really been exposed to some of those issues or things that have happened historically. Nancy Brooks-Lane: We very much follow a kind of sociological aspect in terms of keeping all that in a broader picture. Including, writings of Civil Rights leaders. That is one of those things you have got to continue. I have just ordered for the staff, How I became a Human Being by Mark O'Brian, so we are going to be doing a book study on that. I think that is one piece of it, you kind of change people's view of what it means to be a part of a work environment by challenging who we are and what we are doing. The other piece is that I think there has to be flexibility in what the work day means for folks. It can not be that eight to five kind of model. Again, staff have to know that they are integral to that process, that what they have to offer is valued and that there s some freedom to them in terms of being able to offer what they bring to being a part of an organization. And with that of course has got to be trust. People are fearful that there is a right or wrong answer or that what they say may be taken in a way that can harm them as an employee; you know you can not get that freedom. I think that is why humor is really important. That is why I think role modeling and those meetings as a leader get bizarre because nothing is too extreme to think through in a brainstorming kind of way. You humble yourself, because there is not a power differential between the staff, who are providing direct support to the folks and people who are supporting the staff as well as the customers. Another key piece to that though, is you have got to hold people accountable. We really judged our success in the change process by the outcomes that staff obtained. That was critical. If we are not seeing through what they are doing, that this is making a difference, then we have failed in our efforts and we need to regroup and rethink how we are approaching that. Slide #8: Staff Development * Training up front. * Studying customer-driven approach. * Using library resources. * Planning book studies and watching videos. Interviewer: As I was listening to you talk, I am really fascinated by the fact that it sounds like you really support your staff in developing skills. The example of how you just ordered them a book that you are going to have a book study, I am not so sure that is a commonplace thing that happens in many organizations. Did you set out to have a plan to do that Nancy? Or how did you go about arriving on that idea or that design? Nancy Brooks-Lane: The staff development piece was a very purposeful process. We knew we had staff that were good people but had only been exposed to how you support people in a building. We did a lot of training up front and again, it was only the cost of the books and the videos. We actually have an organization where we are very fortunate that employees are interested in the arts. That was a nice benefit, because we knew what was out there beyond just the typical human services kinds of stuff. We also knew innovative human services sorts of writings, such as Closing the Shop. We did a weekly study of a customer driven approach for person's with significant disabilities return to community. We paired that with, again, literature and film and book studies. It was a very purposeful process and again, we knew we did not have a lot of money up front to spend on that. We even went to the library and checked out stuff. Interviewer: That is great. I think that is probably the least used resource don't you? I would just be curious, when you were doing a book study or watching videos did you give out the book and say you were going to talk about it Friday or Monday? I know that seems like a silly question to ask. Nancy Brooks-Lane: I have actually done it two ways. There is an ebb and flow in terms of stress and stressors that are impacting an organization. I was real aware of what was happening in terms of our regional boards and the state level, in terms of needs they had for us as an organization. If it was at a point in time when it seemed like there were less of the stressors, I handed out the book and we just read it chapter by chapter. It was like “Between now and next week read the next chapter we are on,” and then we discussed it. There had been times where I reviewed some of the tapes and just played sections and then we talked about how people saw that, reacted to it. Or got books and went through what the basic piece of the book was and then read excerpts. So I tried to tune into where staff were in terms of their stress level. Slide #9: Other Resources for Staff Development: * Consultants * Online training * Computer lab Interviewer: That is a great point. Listening to you makes me want to come there and participate in your staff development plan! I know that you all have also used some other resources as you got some different resources. What are some of the other things that you have tried for staff development? Nancy Brooks-Lane: Two of the very powerful resources had to do with consultants that we were able to bring in. Let me back up and just kind of put this in perspective. Interviewer: That would be great. Nancy Brooks-Lane: We did the internal training that was not expensive at all, but was very powerful and effective. From that process, we judged the effectiveness of this in terms of our training, by the outcomes that the staff obtained. We did see the staff have some wonderful outcomes, so we were trying to find a place nationally to connect with. We did that through Project Employ, as a result we were able to apply for grants. We have something to offer in terms of being able to apply for grants. So being able to bring the consultants in, resulted in us applying for some grants, we had additional resources. That was Cary Griffin and Dave Hammis and I can not speak strongly enough on how effective they have been in working with our staff and moving our system forward. That was really key. As well as the online Job Coach Service Vocation Training through the University of Georgia. That has been so helpful to staff as well, and the good thing is as management level staff, you can tap into where people are with that and kind of support the staff if it looks like somebody is struggling with something you can tap into, “Are they having enough time to get their coursework done? Is there something I might do to support their efforts?” But all the folks graduated. We are in our third round of folks going through the training and it has been very significant in terms of staff developing skills that they need. Of course it is ego boosting in that they have an actual certificate from a university showing that they have attained this skill. Interviewer: Just speaking to that briefly. Because there would be most likely some people wondering whether, say face to face training or online instruction, whether online instruction was valuable and if you could speak to that for just a minute it would be great. Nancy Brooks-Lane: It is very valuable. I think it is a modern way of learning. We have a computer lab so that the staff are able to self-regulate their day and figure out a time when they can get into the lab to work on their study. In this day and age when there are so many facets to a person's life; family, career and just trying again, to have a life beyond your job; that has offered the flexibility that folks really need so that they do not get so stressed out and try to fit everything within this compact period of time. It is available weekends, nights, during your scheduled work hours. It just offers, I think again as I said, a more modern way of learning. Slide #10: Commitment to Staff * Invest in staff. * Let staff know they are important. * Develop good communication. Interviewer: Again, what I think I am hearing as well, is that your organization has a commitment to investing in their staff, and I am hearing that very strongly from you as being very important. Nancy Brooks-Lane: Staff can make or break whatever the organization's vision is. So they are key. Very, very key. You have to invest in staff. They have to know their importance. I do not think you can emphasize that enough. Interviewer: I am wondering within the context of supporting staff and their staff development plan, do you have any recommendations for other agencies as to how to do that more effectively? Nancy Brooks-Lane: I think you have to have good communication with staff. I think staff need to know that indicating you need help or support is a strength. It is not a weakness. I think you have got to have that good foundation again, of good communication with the staff, trust with the staff; and then it is sometimes a very individualized process that you look at with that particular person. Sometimes it is time management; helping the person see ways that maybe their day can run a little more smoothly. I think that you just have to be there for the staff and they have to know that you are available to help them think through because there are so many unexpected things that can occur to shift the importance and focus of that if you allow it to. Slide #11: Assisting a person in being accountable for their outcomes * Appropriate skills. * Clear expectations. * Individualized process. Interviewer: You spoke a minute ago as far as holding people accountable for their outcomes. Let us say you had someone that was not doing well with their outcomes. How do you go about assisting that particular person? Nancy Brooks-Lane: Well of course in that situation it would not be handled in a group setting. What we do is meet individually with the individual, and first of all you make very, very sure that they have the skills to achieve the outcome. Then we make sure that there was no confusion regarding what the expectations were. You have to be very, very careful not to take on the role of therapist, so you help the person look through what are those barriers, but I think you keep that within very clear boundaries as to the outcomes not that, “I've got all these things going on in my life that aren't working.” I think that is a very individualized process, and I think you have to break it down into smaller components if that is what the problem is. You just keep re-thinking through that process in a problem solving sort of way. If the person is not getting outcomes based on work ethics that they have, then you deal with that in a human resources process. Slide #12: Changing staff attitudes and skills * Work from value base. * Develop national connections . * Make connections outside of the traditional service system. Interviewer: Nancy as I am listening to you talk you have hit on so many important points, and I was just wondering if you could summarize briefly, what do you think some of the critical things that an organization might do that is listening to this as far as changing staff attitudes and skills? What are some of the critical things they might think about doing? Nancy Brooks-Lane: It is so important to ensure that staff have the skills that they need. It is very different to support someone in a building as opposed to supporting the person in the community. I can not stress enough again that value base that you have to work from. The other piece that I guess is more tangentially related to what we are talking about, but I think is key, is developing those national connections and also connections outside of the traditional service system. Slide #13: Changing Staff Attitudes * Reframe barriers and obstacles as opportunities. * Know there will be stress and hard work. * Look at what you are doing from a Civil Rights perspective. Interviewer: Nancy, what advice would you give to organizations who are working towards changing staff attitudes? Nancy Brooks-Lane: One thing in addition to the other comments I made, it is important to reframe barriers and obstacles really as opportunities to grow as a way to expand skills. New learning occurs from those hardships that we struggle with, and it develops as it makes us a much more interesting, much more complex individual, and certainly much more prepared to support the folks that we are working with. I think people need to know there will be stress and hard work associated with all of that but that it results in some of the most significant changes in the lives of the people we support. People need to celebrate that gift that we have been fortunate to be a part of. Interviewer: Nancy I can not really thank you enough for the time you have spent with us today, and I would just like to ask you in closing if you have any sort of closing recommendations to staff from various organization who might be thinking about moving from facility based supports to community based supports? Any final words of wisdom you would like to share? Nancy Brooks-Lane: I guess it is just that it is so very important to look at what you are doing from that Civil Rights perspective. The folks that we support have so many barriers that they have to struggle with, and I think in many ways they are stronger than most of us as a result of that. It is just the right thing to do to offer people an opportunity to be a part of their community, to have a valued role and those sorts of goals and life that we all want for ourselves.